debate reference was freely made to Mr. Gladstone's book on Church and
State. Finally Mr. Gladstone rose and remarked, that he would not flinch
from a word he had uttered or written upon religious subjects, and
claimed the right to contrast his principles, and to try results, in
comparison with those professed by Lord John Russell, and to ascertain
the effects of both upon the institutions of the country, so far as they
operated upon the Established Church in England, in Scotland and in
Ireland. It was at this time that a very remarkable scene was witnessed
in the House. Turning upon Mr. O'Connell, who had expressed his great
fondness for statistics, Mr. Gladstone said the use he had made of them
reminded him of an observation of Mr. Canning's, "He had a great
aversion to hear of a fact in debate, but what he most distrusted was a
figure." He then proceeded to show the inadequacy of the figures
presented by Mr. O'Connell. In reply to Lord Morpeth's declaration
concerning the duty of the State to provide education for Dissenters so
long as it fingered their gold, Mr. Gladstone said that if the State was
to be regarded as having no other functions than that of representing
the mere will of the people as to religious tenets, he admitted the
truth of his principle, but not that the State could have a conscience.
It was not his habit to revile religion in any form, but he asked what
ground there was for restricting his lordship's reasoning to
Christianity. He referred to the position held by the Jews upon this
educational question, and read to the House an extract from a recent
petition as follows: "Your petitioners feel the deepest gratitude for
the expression of her Majesty's most gracious wish that the youth of the
country should be religiously brought up, and the rights of conscience
respected, while they earnestly hope that the education of the people,
Jewish and Christian, will be sedulously connected with a due regard to
the Holy Scriptures."